As since then the devotees of Nithyananda have had no compunction to make blatant and libellous statements about them and I have been kicked out of other groups for "not discussing the safety with relevant people at the ashram before I posted about safety on Facebook", another lie, I have decided it is necessary in my defense to share this so others can see:
- That I did voice these concerns before posting on Facebook
- That the key people at the Nithyananda ashram are not interested in honesty
- That the key people at the Nithyananda ashram are not interested in safety of participants
- That the key people at the Nithyananda ashram are not interested in answering questions
- That the key people at the Nithyananda have no interested in setting and declaring safety standards, even though they want participants to take it to the world!
- That the key people at the Nithyananda ashram are not interested in any objective criticism
Here are the 9 questions I initially sent. Note this was 6 days prior to any public post, and I had already been attempting to have my concerns answered by others such at the Yogitva acharyas, Maha Yoga and Sri Amritamanda. The nine questions I had phrased as politely as possible and I refrained from making very concerning although true statements. Observations such as for question 2, I refrained from saying "the toilets that Yogitva men had to use were the worst I have ever had to use in the entire world. They were disgusting! Urine and faeces smell. Uncleaned. Urinals missing lower pipe with no signs saying not to use, urinals falling or fallen off the wall, toilets with broken seats and rarely without faeces spattered over them.". Yet despite refraining and being as polite as I possibly could in the face of extreme concerns, I received no replies. I was ignored. Anyway here are the nine questions to "Ask The Avatar"
Questions I asked Ma Jnatamananda in private message I shared in the Yogitiva group as a number of participants had the same or similar questions
Here is the chat:10/8/17, 13:09 - Jesse: 🙏🕉️🌿🎉🌿🕉️🙏 Nithyanandam Yogitva🕉️🌿🎉🌿🕉️🙏
I am relaxing in Tirruvanamalli now enjoying the relaxed space... And some sleep 😂
With some time now and the opportunity to resolve some questions with one's interviewing Swamiji I have put together some questions I share privately here as I some of you have voiced some similar concerns to me.
I have asked these in private to interviewers rather than public Facebook replies.
I ask that you keep these internal, but I hope ensuring answers will help allay certain doubts or confusion.
Feel free to contribute your thoughts here or in private to me on Facebook
10/8/17, 13:10 - Jesse: What an awesome opportunity to interview Swamiji. 😀🕉️🙏
I have some questions but didn't want to post publicly. Any that you would like me to please let me know.
However Ma, they are questions I feel require answers to as the situations are keeping people from Swamiji:
1. At the Ashram, there is some disorganization, inefficient processes, or lack thereof, and volunteers having much time wasted, working long hours to do tasks that could be performed in a small fraction of the time.
The environment is very reactive and proactivity seems to be almost discouraged.
Swamiji speaks of working smarter, however, in reality I saw little of this.
I took initiative where I saw opportunity yet was still held back by the environment.
All of this seems very contradictory to my interpretation of Swamijis teachings.
Why does it seem there is such contradiction?
2. There seems to be a lot of litter and refuse and uncleanness in places on the Ashram. From my Western perspective this is not reflective of respect or honor for Swamiji nor the deities.
I know people are kept busy (although often inefficiently) but I do not understand why this atmosphere is allowed to exist. Swamiji please provide your perspective of this.
3. Within the Ashram I see people integrated to their specific focus, eg their department agenda. However, it appears they sometimes have a disregard for other peoples areas and miss the big picture that I expect Swamiji has. So it seems the agenda of the higher ranking person is the one that is obtained, even if an unrelated department or area.
Why is there not awareness created for understanding the bigger picture?
4. I see and hear things said for promotion that are half truths and could even be considered as lies.
Of course I understand the desire for promotion but to do so at the expense of honesty surely will only backfire.
The ancient swastika represents honesty, truth, purity and stability, so to me honesty should should be something one is integrated to over promotion.
So why is bending the truth condoned for the sake of promotion?
5. I have heard that the Trishul also represents honesty. Is this so, and if so can you please expand on this?
6. When one undertakes a course at the Ashram, a comprehensive waiver is signed. This is understandable, however, participants would expect that their safety would be considered as a highest priority.
However, from my experience I have seen where other priorities have resulted in participants safety taking a lower priority, particularly where promotion is concerned.
I would appreciate Swamijis perspective on safety of participants.
7. I see where devotees try to protect Swamiji by using verbal violence. They use as defense of this, that Swamiji has said to be ruthless and I have heard out of context examples used to support such actions. Often evidence is not cited in the ruthless defense.
However, my length thinking would indicate this will only exacerbate the problem, and cause onlookers to perhaps think this is a cult like irrational emotional response.
I love the work of Nithyanananda Truth. (Edit: Since leaving India I now suspect it is full of lies and halftruths and misdirections and they harass innocent people)
What would you say Swamiji to those that are responding out of emotional defense of you that themselves have not analyzed the evidence sufficiently to provide an evidence based response to specific accusations?
8. There is the belief that as the Ashram is Swamijis space, everything that happens on the Ashram is caused by Swamiji.
Also certain ones are prone to proclaim that everything they say is from Swamiji.
This would entail that if true, and such a person is dishonest, the lie is at the least condoned by Swamiji.
It would make more sense to me that people still have free choice and within their incomplete space, they will do things that Swamiji would not condone, but that he may use these for that person's or others completion.
Can Swamiji please clarify and expand on what is caused by him at the Ashram?
8b. Also, as to the perspective certain ones have that everything they say is from Swamiji, I see great potential danger of one's own ego, perspectives and incompletions being imposed upon others in arrogance. Please clarify this view that certain ones are expressing.
9. Swamiji has stated several times, "you do not even need to trust me but please do not do violence to me".
I know a number of people that are keeping quiet about problems at the Ashram so as "violence" is not done to Swamiji.
Also there is a difficulty in being heard when one tries to quietly raise the issues to relevant higher level persons.
This environment, where there exists defensiveness of the problems with statements like "everything that happens here is Swamiji", is one that can only foster such problems. Such statements seem to me to be used often as an excuse and I cannot see Swamiji endorsing issues I raised in other questions.
Being more public some would see as being violent to Swamiji.
However, there does not seem the interest to have such problems resolved.
Instead there exists defensiveness and and a desire to hide from facts.
Certainly the Avatar does not need protecting by the use of half truths or burying truth.
What should people do when seeing problems so they can be resolved without causing violence to you Swamiji?
10/8/17, 17:33 - Naveen: 🤷🤷🤷🤷🤷🤷
10/8/17, 17:38 - Harriet: Well spoken Jesse. I’m looking forward to the answers. 🙏
10/8/17, 17:39 - Jesse: Thanks Harriet. 🕉️🙏
10/8/17, 17:40 - Jesse: Naveen, your icons don't show for me, what are they?
10/8/17, 17:46 - Naveen: Hey Jesse, even I agree with some of your opinions and I'm trying to post my thoughts here. Hence those icons posted. Meaning can we do something about it( ur
opinions).
10/8/17, 17:47 - Naveen: And really appreciate that u wanted it to be private.
10/8/17, 17:53 - Jesse: 👍 Thanks, I think getting the requests to Swamiji will be enough. Swamiji is not blind so he must be aware of much if not all. Even if he is aware, without request, can he as Shiva take action?
At least this will be a good first step to form a foundation for positive change.
10/8/17, 18:01 - Harriet: Yes if we don’t question we don’t get answers or raise awareness for change . 🙏🏼
[Seven unrelated to discussion, private comments removed]
Questions started about Manifestion into our bank accounts four times as promised
10/9/17, 20:53 - Harriet: Of all you people who committed to Maha Sadashivoham on the influence of Ma Maha Yogananda’s promise to manifest 4 times the amount... has anyone received any manifestation?
10/9/17, 21:05 - Jesse: No. Nothing into account. No interaction from Ma Maha Yoga. Attempted inteteraction with her, but was busy each time.
Positive interaction with Sri Mahant Amritananda that on Saturday after it should already have manifested, said it would now be after wealth creation workshop.
For clarity, this is what I recall spoken to our group. Please confirm anyone who recalls the same of if different recollections please advise:
Ma Maha Yoga said
Minimum 4 times initial payment she would manifest into our nominated account
That Swamiji was backing her words
That Swamiji would not allow anyone to suffer so it would manifest very quickly, long before Mahasadashivoham
That anyone who took up the offer would become part of the top 200 that Ma Maha Yoga works with directly
Sri Mahant Amritananda in his wealth completion talk for primarily Yogitva:
That it would happen before the weekend (which was the weekend of the wealth workshop on the Sunday evening)
10/9/17, 21:21 - Harriet: Yes correct!!!
10/9/17, 21:22 - Jesse: I have created a private group on Facebook to discuss this issue. Those I am connected with on Facebook that I know have a direct interest eg made payment, I have invited. Anyone else with a direct interest please ask me to add you. (Edit: This REALLY scared Dridhananda and he then comes into the conversation because of my doing this)
This way we can keep the discussion relevant in that area.
I think some people might feel more open to speaking about this when they know it's only those with a direct interest, ie we are all in the same boat.
10/9/17, 21:23 - Harriet: 👍🏼
10/9/17, 21:24 - Jesse: For anyone feeling embarrassed about making a payment, by using the FB group others need not know.
10/9/17, 21:27 - Iveta: 👍🏼
10/9/17, 21:34 - Jesse: I would also like to have the group consolidate questions so we can present a succinct set to the right audience.
I have heard that there was an expensive Inner Awakening course that was canceled by the Nithyanananda Trust. However, they refused to provide any refunds.
I would like to know what truth or not there is to this also. If anyone has any information please provide it. Thanks
At this point Dridha (Dridhananda) comes in on the conversation, and adds Maha Yoga, without even saying to the group he will do so
10/9/17, 21:40 - Dridha: Jesse, of course you are allowed to question things, but you’ve drawn a lot of conclusions actually as well. Your seeking isn’t coming from the right space.10/9/17, 21:40 - Dridha added Ma_Maha_Yoga
10/9/17, 21:41 - Dridha: Rather than seeking answers from the right people you’ve decided to create a group with those that cannot provide you the answers your looking for
10/9/17, 21:45 - Jesse: No. Rather than clutter this group and have an environment where some may not feel comfortable to talk, I have created a group so those involved can discuss. Then we can bring succinct questions to the right people as a group. Whether that be back here, direct to MA Maha Yoga, Swamiji or wherever.
10/9/17, 21:46 - Ma_Prasiddha: Guys this group should be for empowering one another at the end of the day, simple as that. Nithyananda Yoga Acharyas should hold such a powerful space and deep understanding of Swamiji. Let’s work to gain that only
10/9/17, 21:47 - Ma_Prasiddha: Whatever discussion there may be or questions- let them come from the space of completion, not feeling slighted or coming from fear. ❤
10/9/17, 21:49 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: This is Mahayoga and i am wondering why jesse is worried abt wealth not manifesting yet when i clearly told it will happen with swamijis grace well before Mahasadashivoham . Doubting swamiji or the shakthis is not going to do any good neither is it an intelligent way forward . Jesse i personally dont feel ur concerns are even over wealth manifesting --- this is something else all together
10/9/17, 21:49 - Jesse: At the moment, one's have spoken to me directly but are not necessarily comfortable speaking in a group they are even unsure who are all the members.
10/9/17, 21:52 - Jesse: Thank you Ma. It is great you are here. I have questions over perceived honesty. For example, can you please advise why you stated that the ropes used in Kundalini Raju day were all to the correct standards and safe?
10/9/17, 21:57 - Naveen: Hi Jesse , problem with you is , your Western perspective I guess. Accident do happens. All the ropes are safe and fine.
Be calm and I hope u would enjoy your Stay in India when u see thing as they are ( I mean Indian perspective )
10/9/17, 21:58 - Naveen: I don't in any mean , disrespect to your opinions
10/9/17, 22:01 - Dridha: Yes.. the litter, ‘refuse and uncleanness’ is a cultural thing. You all saw what the rest of India is like. This has nothing to do with lack of respect for deities/Swamiji. This atmosphere exists because it’s not seen as an issue at all to so many of the Adheenavasi’s (since they’re raised in this culture). Swamiji is waiting for us to put our Westernized cleanliness in place still
10/9/17, 22:03 - Jesse: Ok. Acharyas. Would you endorse the use of the skinny white ropes on their own in regular Kundalini Raju sessions?
10/9/17, 22:04 - Naveen: Well said drida swamy.
Most important thing to become yogi is
GET COMFORTABLE WITH BEING UNCOMFORTABLE.
10/9/17, 22:08 - Ma_Nithya_Ishaprema_Nanda: U r right naveen ji🙏🏻
10/9/17, 22:14 - Jesse: I am not comfortable with people ignoring the safety of others.
10/9/17, 22:17 - Jesse: Who here realizes that those removing the water from Ananda Saba were doing so standing in water connected to 240v of unlimited power supply with no trip switches as evidenced by the fire days before and that those electrical cables were literally running through the water?
I came over and turned the Ups powers off so it was then safe but before that a short could have been catastrophic.
10/9/17, 22:18 - Jesse: Can Acharyas, that are responsible rather than people parroting they are safe, please answer my question on the thin white stretchy ropes?
10/9/17, 22:19 - Naveen: Even Guinness people allowed us to use skinny ropes means that rope is just fine and safe.
I heard u had to participate in Guinness record session on skinny rope.
I can understand your pain for being on the skinny rope.
And thanks for switching off UPS power.
May be swamy ji wanted you to do that..
10/9/17, 22:20 - Jesse: Guiness are not there to accredit safety. Please stick to commenting on things you actually know.
10/9/17, 22:25 - Soraya: Hey Jesse it's soraya i hear everything you're saying. Safety, uncleanliness...a lot of things lacking. everywhere. all the time. If ever you want to talk feel free to call, via whatsapp. I enjoyed our conversations. Hope you are enjoying traveling around India!
10/9/17, 22:26 - Naveen: Don't get personal man.
Guinness people do check for safety before allow us to do things.
I am just saying look at the bright side.
Swami ji provide food for all, look at Bala sands . These kids going to be super confident next generation.
Great ambience and energy in ashramam.
10/9/17, 22:27 - Ma_Prasiddha: Jesse, those ropes were in no means unsafe. They are climbing ropes. The Ropes we use normally are thicker for comfort and consistent use for rope yoga. Safety of participants was in no means compromised by use of climbing Ropes.
GUINESS checked the safety of the Ropes for hours Jesse. Including again when you all exited the hall.
Jesse all of these highly specific situations you keep worrying about is such a waste of your beautiful energy and space you carry.
No one is saying safety doesn’t matter. People from over 50 countries live here- clearly a massive liability for Swamiji which STILL doesn’t stop his generosity or love for opening his home to all of us.
Accidents can happen literally anywhere at ANY moment. As seekers why would we waste our complete energy on worrying about the unknown? A core principle of spirituality is trusting that life CARES and provides for you! This is literally the safest space on planet earth, we are in the cosmic womb.
10/9/17, 22:29 - Dridha: Two Mallakambh masters of over 30 years experience assured us those ropes are safe. They said after 2 weeks they should not be used, but since they were brand new they would be perfectly fine
10/9/17, 22:30 - Harriet: With all due respect those ropes where not ok.
10/9/17, 22:34 - Jesse: Any thin rope with such stretch has potential for deep tissue injury that a non stretch rope does not have.
10/9/17, 22:37 - Ma_Prasiddha: An amazing interview of Swamiji about to start, I’m sure He will provide many answers to everyone’s questions
10/9/17, 22:40 - Jesse: I am guessing as they said within 2 weeks, that the ones you are referring to as assessing the ropes were specifically interested in the breaking strain of the rope rather than its action wrapped around soft tissue. Can this be clarified?
Regardless I understand that at the outset of Kundalini Raju for Yogitva females, the group were told never to use anything other than the demonstrated ropes. (Thick, multiple braiding, sheathed)
10/9/17, 22:41 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: The rajju ropes were actual rajju ropes that were demoed and tested . The new ropes were rough but they arr rajju ropes --- not some random contraption we thought of using . We are not that desperate for guinness to use any sub standard rope and you should know that Swamiji or any of us in the sangha wouldnt allow any such thing .
10/9/17, 22:44 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: Thick braided and sheathed ropes also have created toe wounds on ppl - its part of training and not intended to hurt people
10/9/17, 22:45 - Dridha: Only reason Ropes were like that was because the covering was not sewed on
10/9/17, 22:45 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: Actually u are supposed to be revering the cotton rope of high tensile strength as hanumans tail and climbing it .
10/9/17, 22:45 - Jesse: As I understand it the new ropes were only 1/3 a rope and needed to be entwined together and sheathed. Using 1/3 of an official component does not make it THE official component. Or where do we draw the line? One strand taken from a 1/3 skinny rope?
10/9/17, 22:46 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: Dhrida the covering did not need to be sewed on a non braided rope and mr deshpande adept in rope and pole never found anything amiss with our arrangement -- i personally took him around and asked
10/9/17, 22:46 - Dridha: 👍👍
10/9/17, 22:47 - Herumb: Jesse the whole think just works on pure trust and feeling connection on swamiji so just relax be excited for coming Mahasadashivoham your all queries and doubts will be cleared.🙏
10/9/17, 22:50 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: No the thick ropes are unbraided collection of thin strands -- i am very clear we are not a bunch of dunderheads hankering after records to put ppls life at risk . Uday deshpande is one of the top most authority on rope and pole yoga and he was very satisfied with the safety standards and it was u guys who had perfectly safe ropes of the highest tensile strength which is why 1/3rd of the size of ropes "braided" is perfectly acceptable or else u should no guinnness would have simply disqualified the whole event
10/9/17, 22:54 - Jesse: I cannot trust an environment is safe when there are obvious safety concerns. It should not take accidents for people to realize something is not safe. I know this is India, but as followers of Swamiji intent on respecting and living life, we need to hold ourselves to a much higher standard. Rather than try to justify unsafe actions we should be using the situations to raise us higher.
There was a fire in Ananda Saba due to lack of RCD and poor wiring and connections. I made sure people reviewing this was made aware.
Was RCD put in place?
Next there was a flood in the same room people I the water, while power is supplied to two Sanyasi's doing media promotion with electricity running through the water. If we do not learn and accept responsibilities, there will be accidents eg look at shifting of Dhurga Devi into the lake.
10/9/17, 22:56 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: When an international org like guinnness who are very strict abt guideliness and standards and an authority like deshpande has checked and verfied then there is no question of compromise in peoples safety . End of issue . Its good u participated however if u went to akhadas ud see there isnt even a safety bed or mattress .
10/9/17, 22:57 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: Jesse ur welcome to join as an adheenavasi and contribute to making living in a converted jungle like bidadi adheenam more safer to stay in .
10/9/17, 22:58 - Jesse: Ma, you are speaking of tensile strength, breaking strength. I am speaking of the mode of action of something stretchy and thin on deep tissue. They are two separate safety issues. The former could result in death much easier. But the later can result in injury that the correct rope would not result in considering the same circumstances.
10/9/17, 22:58 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: And i am making it very clear we are not people who play with anyones safety . Incidents happen --- as can happen at any place --- we take precautions and actions to help with it and invite others to contribute into it Z. Simple
10/9/17, 22:59 - Jesse: Thank you Ma. It is something I have been considering as I have had this request made of me multiple times.
10/9/17, 22:59 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: No jesse i think more than u there are ppl who understand what ropes need to be used
10/9/17, 22:59 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: I prefer to listen to them -- any rope can strangle -- but rajju ropes have to be of a certain material -- of a certain variety of cotton .
10/9/17, 23:01 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: So now what exactly is the issue -- rajju ropes or safety in infrastructure or money not yet appearing in bank account ?
10/9/17, 23:01 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: I ve not seen this kind of bullying in the name of concern and wanting to clarify things for others
10/9/17, 23:02 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: Its like trying to scratch swamiji and say give give --- why are we degrading a scared process ?
10/9/17, 23:02 - Jesse: Bullying?
10/9/17, 23:02 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: Who denied any one ?
10/9/17, 23:03 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: Yes what else is ur one sided statements over the money issue -- iam disappointed some of u have made it into a business instead of getting spiritually empowered towards wealth
10/9/17, 23:04 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: And why will anything manifest when we are busy questioning the source
10/9/17, 23:05 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: Then what else does it mean to send msgs saying i know ppl who have not yet manifested the money
10/9/17, 23:06 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: And u guys will form one group and sit there without even having the relevant ppl there to address you
10/9/17, 23:06 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: Then by all means that group only becomes one that is slowly heading away from swamiji
10/9/17, 23:06 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: What else is it
10/9/17, 23:07 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: And do u honestly believe that any of us can have more concern for humanity for a rope or money than swamiji himself ?
10/9/17, 23:08 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: U have to look deeper into where ur questions are coming from
10/9/17, 23:09 - Jesse: I believe Swamiji has such concerns. It is why I have confusion when I see things from people seem to run contrary to what I believe of Swamiji.
Questions come from such contradictions. For example regarding the wealth manifestation:
10/9/17, 23:10 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: What about the wealth manifestation
10/9/17, 23:10 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: Ask the question directly
10/9/17, 23:14 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: What is ur concern about it ?
10/9/17, 23:16 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: I am not doing a business transaction ... when people understand from the right context why they should give all that they have towards life opportunities like mahasadashivoham .... as a way ti show such ppl the power of manifesting wealth i said such ppl will have quadrupled their wealth before mahasadashivoham . Thats all
10/9/17, 23:16 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: Now where is the problem in this
10/9/17, 23:19 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: Why is a divine happening relegated into a cheap give and take ?
10/9/17, 23:20 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: I hope ur listening to swamijis satsang on faulty generalization
10/9/17, 23:22 - Jesse: Notice the colon, it means that I will continue and expand. Thus asking directly.
For clarity, this is what I recall spoken to our group.
Ma Maha Yoga said:
Minimum 4 times initial payment she would manifest into our nominated account
That Swamiji was backing her words
That Swamiji would not allow anyone to suffer so it would manifest very quickly, long before Mahasadashivoham
That anyone who took up the offer would become part of the top 200 that Ma Maha Yoga works with directly
Sri Mahant Amritananda in his wealth completion talk for primarily Yogitva:
That it would happen before the weekend (which was the weekend of the wealth workshop on the Sunday evening)
I had worked on completions and he scanned me and confirmed there was nothing else remaining as incompletions at that time regarding wealth that could inhibit the manifestation.
On Saturday early morning it had not manifested and I had opportunity to ask Sri Mahant Amritananda.
He said it would now occur directly after the wealth creation workshop.
Several days ago I asked again. He asked that I provide my bank details to him and he would forward to you. This was done. I received a thanks from him but nothing from yourself.
So from my experience there are contradictions over timing and also over the expectation I had of being directly assisted by yourself as part of the 200 as manifestation, not restricted to wealth, is something I am keen to excel at.
I have been able to manifest a number of things during and since Yogitva including certain people coming into my life. But I have also tried to manifest specific figures of money into an account which has not come to fruition, at least as yet.
For me I also want to be able to prove Swamiji to others in their acid test. At most relevant to this I have moved a coconut twice on the ground, but I am not consistent I this.
The >4x Manifesting into my account is something that would be an excellent acid test.
10/9/17, 23:24 - Jesse: Actually as I remember what you said to Yogitva, you were quite specific.
10/9/17, 23:26 - Jesse: It did not have the clauses and wording you mention above. Simply stated "whatever any of you make as an initial payment, I will manifest at least four times that into your bank account"
10/9/17, 23:27 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: Yes i was and still am very specific when i said the wealth will manifest before mahasadashivoham - the side conv u have had with others cant be confused into what i said . Whats the confusion in this --- may i remind you all shakthis are from swamiji not from us ---the shakthis will manifest min 4 times more ---- then why are you placing an expiry date on it
10/9/17, 23:28 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: If u have side conversations that i am not aware of then why question the very shakthi itself
10/9/17, 23:29 - Jesse: I did not place an expiry date. From yourself there was the "it will happen quickly as Swamiji will not allow anyone to experience pain in this"
Then there were the more specific time based statements from Sri Mahant Amritananda
10/9/17, 23:29 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: Did i say i need ur bank account info again jesse ?
10/9/17, 23:30 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: No this is not right first of all u taking the issue to any one not directly involved in what i did is only inviting confusion
10/9/17, 23:30 - Jesse: I don't know. At least not directly to me. I was doing what Sri Mahant Amritananda asked me to do.
10/9/17, 23:30 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: I very clearly told i am initiated for it
10/9/17, 23:31 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: Then why are u making faulty generalization
10/9/17, 23:31 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: Abt the whole power manifestaion for wealth based on ur side conv with some one else
10/9/17, 23:32 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: And ur twisting my statements
10/9/17, 23:32 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: I said swamiji will never allow suffering in anything not just in wealth manifestation
10/9/17, 23:33 - Jesse: I thought it appropriate as Sri Mahant Amritananda was the one that was brought in thereafter to help us with incompletions that may impede manifestation.
He was also much more accessible.
10/9/17, 23:34 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: Dnt mis type my statements and degrade the sanctity of power manifestation . I also told very clearly by the time you guys see the manifestation ur very relationship with swamiji will have evolved
10/9/17, 23:34 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: Then we cant make generalizations on a power manifestation based on what u thought
10/9/17, 23:35 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: U are putting doubts into ppl in this group now - that is not a mature thing to do
10/9/17, 23:36 - Jesse: Yes I agree, you did say that Swamiji would not allow suffering. It was in reference specifically to those making payment and requiring the 4x.
10/9/17, 23:36 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: Yes it was in ref to it and MUCH MORE
10/9/17, 23:37 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: Ur lives are not only abt money in the bank
10/9/17, 23:37 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: Now where is the issue in waiting ?
10/9/17, 23:37 - Jesse: Ma, with all due respect. The doubts are already there. It is just that I have the courage to voice them when others do not.
10/9/17, 23:37 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: No
10/9/17, 23:37 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: U are generalizing
10/9/17, 23:38 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: And i am highly disappointed if some folks in yogitva are actually abt hey i gave money now just give me 4 times back and if doesnt happen i few days then ur just fibbing
10/9/17, 23:38 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: What kind of attitude is this towards folks who take responsibility for u
10/9/17, 23:40 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: Many years back swamiji said he will make ppl read blind folded ---- no one believed but those who did and waited patiently are now reading blindfolded
10/9/17, 23:40 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: Where on earth is this judgement coming from
10/9/17, 23:40 - Jesse: You are missing context. Especially the fact that the group also had two sessions with Sri Mahant Amritananda where statements where made creating a more defined time expectation.
10/9/17, 23:40 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: I am very clear my sessions or the power manifestation cannot be mixed up
10/9/17, 23:41 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: Making a generalization based on what u guys experienced with others is not right
10/9/17, 23:41 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: Amritananda came to teach u to make sankalpa for wealth
10/9/17, 23:41 - Jesse: You are seeing something from your perspective, not what the group has experienced.
10/9/17, 23:41 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: And if something has not manifested doesnt mean it never will
10/9/17, 23:41 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: Dnt talk abt the group
10/9/17, 23:41 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: Speak for urself
10/9/17, 23:42 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: Let each person only speak for themselves
10/9/17, 23:42 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: U cant be an acharya and say hey it didnt manifest ------- the word is it didnt manifest YET ---- doesnt mean it wont manifest ever
10/9/17, 23:43 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: And i highly suggest u get back to stable thinking and remain open instead of questioning the possibility itself
10/9/17, 23:43 - Jesse: Of course. I agree if something has not manifested it doesn't mean it never will.
I refer to the group as it was as the group we received the information I refer to. Where I receive experience personally I refer to it as myself.
10/9/17, 23:43 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: U cant acid test sadashiva u can only be receptive
10/9/17, 23:45 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: I am clear amritananda only came to teach u guys how to make sankalpas and manifest wealth ---- u guys cant club everything and keep confusing urself and forgetting ur spiritual context
10/9/17, 23:45 - Jesse: I remain open. Where there are contradictions I therefore need them clarified so I can remain open.
For example, if nobody says anything and there is something blocking the manifestation that needs addressing, it will not be addressed and manifestation will not occur
10/9/17, 23:46 - Jesse: The group can only go by what information has been received. If information is wrong we need it clarified and explained as to why it is wrong.
10/9/17, 23:48 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: Dont u think cosmic intelligence understands and can do whats needed
10/9/17, 23:48 - Jesse: As an Acharya don't I also need to take action for others where they are unable to do so?
10/9/17, 23:48 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: No u decided already that they are unable thats where ur wrong
10/9/17, 23:48 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: An acharya is one who keeps the will in people alive
10/9/17, 23:50 - Jesse: You do not know what I have done behind the scenes to that end. Even today one who left Yogitva early said they wished they had spoken to me earlier as they would not have left.
10/9/17, 23:51 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: If u want to defend urself ur free to do it . But u have to align ur context
10/9/17, 23:52 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: Ur current way of thinking as if no one is bothered abt ppl after they paid is not right
10/9/17, 23:52 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: As an acharya it is not right at all
10/9/17, 23:54 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: Finish this conv here - dhrida and prasiddha its best you guys have a call with all new acharyas over this so there is no confusion in people
10/9/17, 23:54 - Jesse: No. I did not cognize that.
10/10/17, 00:00 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: As long as u can cognize it now it will keep u stable
10/10/17, 00:06 - Jesse: I could see you were very concerned about one person and relationship concerns, in particular when doing the exercise of manifestation with each person, so I know that the generalisation that you or others are not bothered about people is not correct and not something I have as a cognition.
10/10/17, 05:13 - Raj: Nithyanandam 🙏💐🙏
10/11/17, 08:35 - Dalila left
10/11/17, 05:06 - Raj: Nithyanandam 🙏💐🙏
10/11/17, 13:44 - Iveta: Nithyanandam 🌿🙏
10/11/17, 17:14 - Jesse: Nithyananandam. Although I feel many of my questions are yet to be satisfactorily answered, I would like to clarify a couple of things specifically.
These are my questions, not prompted by others from the group.
1. Ma Maha Yoga said
"I very clearly told i am initiated for it"
Is this meaning that only Ma Maha Yoga, and no one else, is initiated into Manifesting changes to bank accounts?
2. Also in Mandala, Swamiji said he initiated everyone there into all the powers. So what does that exactly mean?
3. At this point having almost AUD$17000 on my credit card very close to maxed out now, is starting to cause me some suffering while I am traveling.
The example of Manifesting ~US$400,000 was, as I recollect, obtained by working with the family for the night and the money manifested quickly (next day?)
Can you please advise what is holding up the manifestation of the >4x into my account?
4. I am very interested in personally Manifesting. As part of the 200 that Ma Maha Yoga has pledged to work with directly to assist them to manifest, what does this actually mean?
Thankyou
10/12/17, 06:48 - Raj: Nithyanandam 🙏💐🙏
10/12/17, 11:11 - Iveta: N 🙏🌿🙏
10/12/17, 14:19 - Harriet: 🙏🏼😇❤
10/13/17, 05:26 - Raj: Nithyanandam 🙏💐🙏
10/13/17, 05:28 - Iveta: 👣🙏😉🍎
10/13/17, 10:15 - Jesse: Nithyanandam all 🙏🕉️🙏
10/13/17, 10:18 - Jesse: Can anyone answer my last three questions that remain ignored from three days ago please?
10/13/17, 12:35 - Jesse: Acharyas, Upon further reflection of comments, I cannot understand why the ropes would be considered safe as long as used within 2 weeks.
Can you please explain the reasoning behind this?
Also what specifications did the thin ropes meet exactly?
+Breaking strain (and how measured) ?
+Stretch range?
+Material?
+Flexibility?
+Size?
When the conversation is analyzed, all that's been said after a long discussion so far is the generalisation "the ropes were safe and met the safety standards. Mr Deshpande approved the ropes... The ropes were climbing ropes. ". This is not a satisfactory answer. Please let me know what specifications they met and advise what the determining factors are for what is a safe rope and what is not. What standards do we now use to select ropes in our own countries?
Thankyou
10/13/17, 13:03 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: Jesse your questions have been repeatedly answered and yet you pose the same questions . It is better you get on a direct face to face call with yogithva organizers and have ur queries put to rest.
10/13/17, 13:04 - Dridha: Mallakhamb/Shivastambha has never been about ‘safety.’ It’s about raising consciousness and reaching enlightenment. Of course, in the modern day, safety has to be addressed differently because of views from foreigners like you. In India, I’ve seen kids practice virabadrasana with nothing but hard rocks below them, Jesse.
The traditional practice happens on virtually any vertical object.. Everything from a pole, hanging pole, stone pillar (as Swamiji was taught) and even a thin piece of cane!
You’re not listening. None of our answers are going to satisfy you because of the space you’re coming from. You’re thinking is very limited, you’re missing the spiritual context entirely; not a space of an acharya. We will have to continue this conversation on the side regarding that matter.
10/13/17, 13:10 - Jesse: So ultimately what you both are saying is that there are zero safety standards to consider because it is an ancient spiritual practice.
Yes this is obviously what I am not getting.
I was coming from the space where injuries or death could be possible if we do not consider safety. But I am not supposed to carry that space with these practices?
The kids you refer to do not use crash mats either. Are you telling me they never have serious injuries?
10/13/17, 13:12 - Jesse: Ma Maha Yoga, A number of my questions relate to answers I think only you can answer. They have been unanswered for 3 days.
10/13/17, 13:13 - Jesse: I cannot comprehend that you want Yogitva to take these practices to the Western world and ignore safety standards.
10/13/17, 13:22 - Ma_Prasiddha: Jesse you are so beyond listening you literally are convinced you are somehow the expert in this field and I’m sorry but that’s unbelievably arrogant. Every single question you just asked AGAIN was already answered by us and Mahayoga- someone mind you that you cannot comprehend the amount of work she does in one day or what she goes through and yet is exhausting her energy in a cycle of complete non listening with you. Your logic is so broken and you are blind to it. WE HAVE NEVER ONCE SAID WE IGNORE SAFETY. This entire conversation has been us answering exactly how we follow safety to the top tier of anywhere else doing this. The reason you aren’t getting response to every thought you present is because we do not care to convince you or anyone. Convincing is not needed at all. If you feel it is needed than I don’t know why you are interested to be a part of this
10/13/17, 13:27 - Jesse: There is definitely not a following of safety to the top tier of anyone else doing "this" despite what you may sincerely believe.
By this I am speaking about the broader category of aerial acrobatics rope and fabric. Discounting spiritual practice perspective, which one must do if considering "safety to the top tier", Kundalini Rajju fits within this broader category.
You can't separate out KR and say you are the safest.
10/13/17, 13:29 - Jesse: Dridhas reply was basically indicating that you don't need to give me or anyone safety standards because it is a spiritual practice and kids do this on rocks.
10/13/17, 13:31 - Jesse: Now I know Dridha does consider safety, hence adaption of routines for Shiva Stumbha Guiness attempt. So his answer seems more of a deflection from providing standards to us.
10/13/17, 13:34 - Jesse: Ma Prasiddha. I am not asking you to convince me of anything. I am asking for evidence to back up what has previously been said.
To say you do not care to convince me or anyone when I have asked for safe rope specifications is indeed a massive deflection.
10/13/17, 13:37 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: Jesse ur questions were answered 3 days back and yet you say they are un attended . I told you get on a live face to face call with yogithva organizers have ur questions put to rest --- that msg is ignored , why ? If you have issues with manifestation of wealth - and u are again and again twisting ur words -- its best you reconsider why u originally paid for mss - u are corporatising a spiritual process . And prasiddha never said they dnt care to convince you then why are you making such a big assumption and saying its a massive deflection ?
10/13/17, 13:40 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: That last statement of yours makes me seriously doubt your intentions
10/13/17, 13:42 - Jesse: "The reason you aren’t getting response to every thought you present is because we do not care to convince you or anyone. Convincing is not needed at all. If you feel it is needed than I don’t know why you are interested to be a part of this"
10/13/17, 13:45 - Jesse: Ma Maha Yoga. If my questions were satisfactorily answered the discussion would be ended.
Can you provide minimum safety standards for ropes for Corde Lisse Aerial Rope work, tolerances and what specs the skinny white ropes actually were?
Or if not what standards are you meeting?
10/13/17, 13:47 - Jesse: Ma Maha Yoga, can you answer these questions from 3 days ago please?
Nithyananandam. Although I feel many of my questions are yet to be satisfactorily answered, I would like to clarify a couple of things specifically.
These are my questions, not prompted by others from the group.
1. Ma Maha Yoga said
"I very clearly told i am initiated for it"
Is this meaning that only Ma Maha Yoga, and no one else, is initiated into Manifesting changes to bank accounts?
2. Also in Mandala, Swamiji said he initiated everyone there into all the powers. So what does that exactly mean?
3. At this point having almost AUD$17000 on my credit card very close to maxed out now, is starting to cause me some suffering while I am traveling.
The example of Manifesting ~US$400,000 was, as I recollect, obtained by working with the family for the night and the money manifested quickly (next day?)
Can you please advise what is holding up the manifestation of the >4x into my account?
4. I am very interested in personally Manifesting. As part of the 200 that Ma Maha Yoga has pledged to work with directly to assist them to manifest, what does this actually mean?
Thankyou
10/13/17, 13:54 - Jesse: To answer your request. I signed up for Mahasadashivoham because of the many grand and exciting promises regarding it. I paid in full on credit card because I trusted the promise you made that whatever we made as an initial payment, you would manifest at least four times that amount into our bank account, we would also be part of a special 200 group you would work with personally for the future to manifest further, and that the payment would be quick as Swamiji would not allow anyone to suffer (also the example you gave was a rapid manifestation of US$400,000).
10/13/17, 13:56 - Jesse: As I did not have the money for Mahasadashivoham, your promise was integral in me signing up. I did not commit a partial payment only as I believed your promise.
10/13/17, 13:57 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: Jesse take this on a direct "video call" -- u are repeatedly ignoring me on this . I repeatedly see you twisting words and your questions - ur example of the 400000 manifesting for the canadian family is also twisted up . If you remember the family themselves made clear statements on the manifestation during a morning satsang . Ofcourse they never doubted or bothered to place expiry dates on when the manifestation would happen . Basically they did not choose to make it like a cheap give and take . If you are unable to understand this - kindly take back a refund of what you paid - i am very clear abt spiritual context and if some one just doesnt get it , as unfortunate as it is -- we are not holding back someones money or interested in keeping their wealth .
10/13/17, 13:58 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: If you are not interested in waiting and ur completely missing spiritual context - then above option is open to you .
10/13/17, 13:59 - Jesse: You are making this into a cheap give and take. It is not my context.
10/13/17, 14:05 - Jesse: Thankyou for the option. As I have said several times I am very interested in manifesting at higher levels than I currently do. As such I really want to understand this manifestation process. Hence my questions.
At this time I do not understand our involvement in the process, whether we can manifest extra digits on a bank account, whether you are the only one initiated into this etc etc.
This interest should be showing you that my context is not about a cheap give and take.
In fact the people that sit back and do nothing I regards to the manifestation and just wait for their 4x1000 with little risk would be more indicative of a cheap give and take.
10/13/17, 14:06 - Jesse: I can't take this to a direct video call atm due to bandwidth.
10/13/17, 14:12 - Jesse: Once the monies appear, it will make things much easier. However, surely you can see there have been contradictions in this so far in regards to information provided to those in Yogitva?
10/13/17, 14:13 - Jesse: And then on top of other unresolved matters, concerns build up.
Dridha now adds the third acharya (of 4) from the Yogitva Group obviously for the specific purpose of her making her immediate statement
10/13/17, 14:17 - Dridha added Ma_Yoga_Swami10/13/17, 14:24 - Ma_Maha_Yoga: I dont accept ur accusation that people sit back and do nothing - and no one asked you to pay just so u can see money appear . Payment is done only for mahasadashivoham and frankly your insensitvity towards others on this group in placing your doubts on them is baffling . You created ur own contradictions with your assumptions over this . I never said pay and ul get this . I said take the jump towards mss no one will loose anything and that il show how u guys can see manifestation of wealth happen more than 4 times of what you offered . There is a huge difference -- this is all about getting out of poverty consciousness . U have totally forgotten swamiji and the integrity he gets us to live . U have been part of power manifestation yourself u have seen just because it takes some ppl time to manifest doesnt mean itd never happen . Dont end up missing him in a bid to time line everything !
10/13/17, 14:35 - Jesse: So why not answer my specific questions?
What a convoluted spin and not surprising to see. Don't believe the facts in front of
ReplyDeleteyour face just believe the spin. Name it and claim it and keep making excuses as to
why it's not actually happening. It's just that you don't have enough faith etc. etc.
etc. Sad to see these robotic conversations that keep pointing back to just believe
and proclaim and ignore the real truth keep trying to spin and convince yourself of
the fantasy lie.